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End of Season 33 second part

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Owen Sutherland » 10/08/2018, 13:30

I think you'll find reserve league games count, as do International under 21 games. I think the answer to under 21 development is to play those players in your reserve league games where their stats will show their development. In terms of theu21 Comp, counting them would distort their stats vesrsus other under 21s given they are playing their games against other under 21s rather than in reserve league gamesmanship like other managers players would be doing.

So I think the answer is to get the under 21s into reserve league games and see their stats come through there...

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Elliot Jenkins » 10/08/2018, 14:00

What happened to major changes being voted upon by the community?

Small tweaks like attribute rises and prize money obviously dont need a poll but an issue such as player stats is key to the game as it is the only tool we have within the game engine to monitor players historically. As far as I am concerned this a major change and a poll should have been issued.

What other large changes are on the horizon are expected that have not had a poll carried out?
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Jafafa Azaz » 10/08/2018, 14:27

Owen Sutherland wrote:I think you'll find reserve league games count, as do International under 21 games. I think the answer to under 21 development is to play those players in your reserve league games where their stats will show their development. In terms of theu21 Comp, counting them would distort their stats vesrsus other under 21s given they are playing their games against other under 21s rather than in reserve league gamesmanship like other managers players would be doing.

So I think the answer is to get the under 21s into reserve league games and see their stats come through there...


If this is true, then I’m ok with the overall change as at least reserve league games will count as ‘competitive’. Owen has made a valid point about the under 21 comp in terms of stats being distorted by matches against other under 21’s but I also think it’s a shame to lose the stats associated with that aspect of the game for those interested and motivated by this.

I for one will happily (I do already) develop youngsters through reserve league games, so I really hope these become classed as ‘competitive’ games.

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby LukeMorrison » 10/08/2018, 15:30

I feel like all those that have moaned about the so called unfair stat gain have had there voices heard but we who do not want this change have not been asked at all.

It’s a managers choice to play his under 21s against 30 year olds. Some great players have come out of this youth comp and showed that going on to the first team. If a player is good he is good, it does not matter if they start of playing against other under 21s or 30 year olds.

Look at Dale Atkins, he was 16 last season and was scoring goals for fun in the first team in the b leagues.

Dale Atkins 50 goals at b level first team against Fausto Zagar, 40 goals against under 21 sides. Who is going to attract more attention, if you ask me it’s the other way round and we are the ones getting short changed but that is our choice.
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Matt Sanders » 10/08/2018, 16:10

Owen Sutherland wrote:I think you'll find reserve league games count, as do International under 21 games


I'd like clarification on this. Under 21 Ints and regular international games are already separated on the stats page - so that makes sense. First team friendlies/reserve games/reserve friendlies are all traditionally recorded as Non Comp. Is there some code in the game engine that separates these games to allow reserve games to be added to career/club stats but not friendlies? Seems unlikely to me, but Ian may prove me wrong.
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Dave Lockhart » 10/08/2018, 16:23

I am in favour of separating stats from club and international games but against the idea of not including non competitive games into the stats totals.

If reserve matches are to be included what’s the difference of including friendly games as well (including under 21 comp games) as I am sure that some of the under 21 comp games are much more competitive than some of the reserve games especially in the lower divisions where it’s not uncommon to find yourself playing against an unmanaged team. Different story in the higher leagues granted but not everyone plays in the higher leagues.

Surely this will have a huge effect on the transfer market as you will no idea of some players abilities without an accurate set of stats?

Do we know for sure if reserve games will or will not count as that has a huge say in the debate ?

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Jon Smart » 10/08/2018, 18:28

Dave Lockhart wrote:I am in favour of separating stats from club and international games but against the idea of not including non competitive games into the stats totals.

If reserve matches are to be included what’s the difference of including friendly games as well (including under 21 comp games) as I am sure that some of the under 21 comp games are much more competitive than some of the reserve games especially in the lower divisions where it’s not uncommon to find yourself playing against an unmanaged team. Different story in the higher leagues granted but not everyone plays in the higher leagues.

Surely this will have a huge effect on the transfer market as you will no idea of some players abilities without an accurate set of stats?

Do we know for sure if reserve games will or will not count as that has a huge say in the debate ?


I agree,a move that was'nt needed in my view,I can't see the benefit?
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Philip Lloyd » 10/08/2018, 18:50

I am with Jon on this one - really not sure about long term benefits

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Ben Hutton » 10/08/2018, 19:46

I agree with most people's thoughts here (is there are majority that wanted these changes??). Happy to have international games separated from club games, but non competitive games should still be included I believe.

I realise it doesn't echo real life, but this is a game and stats are a big part of it. I don't see why we're not going to include stats from competitive friendlies or youth comps, but are happy to include stats from the C leagues where my gran could score a hattrick every week averaging 9.5!! Doesn't make sense. The game is about scouting players so it's up to managers to research whether a player's stats are from 1st team football or not, this is what makes the game interesting.

This is a backwards step I think and could have a detrimental effect on transfers and people's enjoyment of the game in general.
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Steve Ellis » 10/08/2018, 20:29

Would it not be possible for a non competitive line to be introduced so you have career competitive stats, career non competitive stats & club stats for each player ?

All historical information can remain as it was but non competitive stats would start to be collated from this season.
I don't like this change and feel it will have a negative impact on transfers which have already become a problem & we can't afford for that situation to get worse.

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Ricky Graves » 10/08/2018, 21:20

I'm with John, I think the new changes are interesting and will reward those managers willing to put the effort in to really scout players. I think those players that show promise become easily identifiable anyway and if managers want to keep track of past performances they only have to save a screenshot of their stats at the end of every season as some managers already do.
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby James Howe » 11/08/2018, 2:12

So what we have found is that most managers are against the changes and 2 are for, to progress forward we really need to group together and decide as a unit through a poll. I honestly don't think there was a need for such a dramatic change as the old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Jon Smart » 11/08/2018, 8:20

I know over the years managers have requested the option to see the different stats regarding international/ domestic games to be separate but never once do I remember seeing a request for non-competitive game stats not to be included in a players career stats? I imagine there are a small group of managers who enjoy gathering stats not readily available in the game and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of managers would prefer it as it has always been,managers can assess for themselves how much credibility they want to give non-competitive stats collated in friendlies such as the youth comp,I think this will have a negative impact on managers enjoyment of the game.Leave it as it is I say or give the managers a vote on the subject,or at least have a career non-competitive stats section?

Ricky Graves wrote:I think those players that show promise become easily identifiable anyway


There we go,as Ricky says.The U21 comp isn't designed to try and inflate youth prices as Billy seems to think,managers will always at times pay too much for a player regardless,we have all done it to a certain degree.
Last edited by Jon Smart on 11/08/2018, 8:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Ian Foletto » 11/08/2018, 8:30

I must say I'm once again a bit... surprised at reading things on here...
I think I've been asked since 2010 to remove those matches from the stats as it gives false results and is not realistic. Now it seems everyone changed their minds. I acknowledge it then.
Shame it took me nearly 2 months of thinking how to do it, and a few days to actually do it, to understand now I did it for ruining the game...
What I cannot accept though guys, and it pains me to say this because I love you all as a great community, but I cannot let it pass, is that I should have asked before doing it, or should have made a poll. Sorry but this I cannot accept.
I asked 2 things what were users opinions on those 2 subjects, one is this, and the other one is expanding the range of abilities as many users complain that now that superplayers are gone all the teams are similar. And I asked in APRIL!
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13648&p=131831#p131774
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13648&p=131831#p131831
That's 4 months, and as you can see, NO ONE bothered to give me a reply (though the topic has been read 400 times)! I wrote it 4 months ago, and only NOW that I've done all the work, everyone is against it.
Sorry guys to bringing this up, but I cannot stay silent on this.

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Ian Foletto » 11/08/2018, 8:32

Anyway, as it seems if no one wants it, I'll bring it back to how it was before.

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Jon Smart » 11/08/2018, 8:44

Sorry Ian,you're right to be surprised at the reaction,sometimes it takes a post from a manager to realise the impact of a change like this,sorry if you have wasted your time,I know time is short for you.
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby billy rose » 11/08/2018, 9:09

The only people that are against the idea are people from the youth comp so they can boost there players stats playing against U21 players

Leave it as it is seems a good idea to me and managers will have to use there youngsters like in real life In there reserves

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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Jon Smart » 11/08/2018, 9:30

Johns reserves are nearly all U21,I do play my youth in the reserves and also first team at times,it's not a problem Billy,I've got no issue when selling players stating they played in the youth comp,no-one I know from the youth comp use it to inflate player prices,the comp isn't about that.
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby LukeMorrison » 11/08/2018, 9:55

I don’t remember that but I do remember reading the first bit. No one even commented, I’m shocked. I will be taking a more closer eye on any updates going forward.

Ian if you was doing this to make the small minority happy then it’s not down to you at all for trying to ruin the game. When I saw this I purely panicked, how can highly intelligent men think this was a good idea.

For anyone who says that managers in the youth comp are trying to increase players stats falsely in order to sell at high prizes are wrong that is not my goal at all. Also if it wasn’t for us youth comp managers you wouldn’t be getting half the prices you get for youth.

12m for a 17/27 Oliver Wome
15 for a 17/30 Erotas Leopoldos
8m for a 17/28 Alfred Nuneza

All useless but oh know wait I’m trying to boost there stats in order to make a profit, no I won’t they will be freebies
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Re: End of Season 33 second part

Postby Dave Lockhart » 11/08/2018, 10:43

Apologies Ian, maybe people didn't think of the implications that the change would bring.

As for using the youth comp to drive up prices, surely its the other way round as people are having to pay premium prices to get quality youngsters to play them in the comp?

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